Wednesday, October 15, 2008

The Arrivals pt.39 (The Prophet's Lineage)

20 comments:

Collin said...

The Twelve Caliphs Cannot be the Shia Imams

The Hadith in question declares that the Imams will be from the Quraish. It is in fact this part that negates both the Shia and Ibaadi claims. It is well-known that amongst the three groups (i.e. Sunnis, Shia, and Ibaadis), it is only the Sunnis that necessitated that the leadership be confined to the Quraish after the Prophet’s death. The Sunnis argued that the leadership of the Muslims must always be given to that party which makes up the majority group. Based upon the principle of majority rule, it was only fair that the leadership be given to the Quraishis who at the time of the Prophet’s death made up the majority group from amongst the Muslims.

On the other hand, the Shia claim that the leadership must be confined to the Ahlel Bayt whereas the Ibaadis claim that the leadership can be given to any Muslim regardless of if he belongs to a minority group un-representative of the majority desire. Therefore, if this Hadith were truly in relation to the Shia Imams, then it should have stated that the twelve Caliphs would be from the progeny of the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) instead of using the term “from Quraish”. Indeed, this is a fact that the Shia were well-aware of and it was based upon this that they blamed the Sunnis for having “distorted” the Hadith of the twelve Caliphs, accusing the Sunnis of altering it from “Ahlel Bayt” or “Bani Hashim” to “Quraish.” Some Shia even refer to the Sunni Hadith of the twelve Caliphs as a “censored” or even “chopped up” version of the Prophet’s real words. The Shia then refer us to the “un-censored” version of the Hadith which is available in Shia books, as follows:

“(There will be) from my descendants eleven leaders (who will) be noble and receive and understand (knowledge). The last of them will be al-Qa’im, who will fill the world with justice after it had been filled with tyranny.”

So we see that while the Shia have historically used Sunni Hadith to back their claims, they end up having to distort these Hadith in order to make them apply more correctly to the Shia paradigm. The fact that the Shia need to “mend” the Hadith of the twelve Caliphs in order for it to work for the Shia belief is proof enough that the Hadith cannot be used as a proof against the Sunnis.

A lay-person may argue that the Bani Hashim are within the clan of Quraish and therefore the Hadith still supports a Shia view. But such a person would be altogether ignorant of Arabic Balagha which necessitates that ascribing the Caliphs to the Quraish means that not all of them are from one particular clan of Quraish but rather they are from different groups from amongst the Quraish; otherwise, there was absolutely no reason that the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) did not say that the Caliphs will be from Bani Hashim.

Having stated that, ignorant Shia youth arguing over the internet will insist that the Hadith can still be applied to the twelve Imams of the Shia since Bani Hashim is part of the Quraish. We simply ask these youths to be honest with themselves: why did the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) use the vague wording that the Caliphs will be from the Quraish, as opposed to clearly stating that the twelve Imams would be from his descendants of the Ahlel Bayt? Common sense dictates that there is no reason that the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) would have used the word “Caliph” as opposed to “Imam”, when in fact the Shia literature always refers to the twelve Imams, not the twelve Caliphs. Additionally, only two of the Imams served as Caliphs whereas the rest never became Caliphs. Furthermore, if the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) was willing the leadership to his descendants, then should he not state that specifically instead of saying that it was a position open to all the Quraish?

We see that the Shia paradigm can only be forced upon this Hadith through brute intellectual force. A similar approach do we see from Qadianis who take our collection of Sunni Hadith and try to prove that their leader is the Mehdi. The truth of the matter is that the Shia would only have a clear argument if the Hadith stated that there would be twelve Imams from the Prophet’s descendants. Instead, the Shia have an “obscure Hadith” in which they are trying to force upon it their own interpretation, much in the same way that Qadianis do with many a Hadith.

Collin said...

The Identity of the Twelve Caliphs
Almost all the deviant sects (including the Imamis, the Zaydis, the Ismailis, the Ibaadis, the Nation of Islam, etc.) claim to know exactly who the twelve Caliphs are; they state with certainty who are the twelve Caliphs, they forge false Hadith to name these Caliphs, and then they say that whoever does not follow these twelve is deviant. This methodology differentiates the sects from the mainstream Muslims who do not claim to know exactly who are the twelve Caliphs. The Prophet’s prophecies were vague, and nobody can know exactly who or what they refer to.

The Shia propagandists will oftentimes attack the Sunnis by asking us “who are the twelve Caliphs” and then they will laugh with joy when we cannot answer them with any certainty. And yet, this is nothing particular or peculiar about our lack of certainty with regards to this one specific prophecy, but rather we are similarly uncertain about the bulk of the Prophet’s prophecies. In another Hadith, the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) has stated that a mujaddid (reviver of the faith) would appear after every century; if we ask the Sunni scholars to name who were all the mujaddideen of the Ummah throughout the centuries, we find that they will not be able to name them. In fact, there is no way that anybody can know for certain even a single of these mujaddideen, namely because to say something like that with absolute certainty would be speaking about the Unseen without knowledge from Allah, which is considered a sin.
Therefore, it is not fair for the Shia to demand for us to say for certainty who the twelve Caliphs are, when in fact our doctrine necessitates that we cannot talk about this with certainty as it being a thing only Allah knows. The vagueness of the Prophet’s prophecy is not at all limited to this one particular Hadith but can be seen in many other Hadith, such as the prophecy about Gog and Magog. Throughout the ages, people have guessed as to who Gog and Magog refers to, some saying that it refers to the Turks while others saying it refers to the Mongols, some say Gog and Magog have already come, whereas others say that they are yet to come–but nobody knows with certainty.
Many of the prophecies of the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) were vague and we can only guess at their exact meaning; such is the nature of prophecies. So when we Sunnis are vague with who are the twelve caliphs in the Hadith, we are vague with all the prophecies in general, because we do not wish to speak about the Unseen without knowledge. Allah warns in the Quran:

“Say: The things that my Lord has indeed forbidden are…saying things about Allah of which you have no knowledge.”
(Quran, 7:33)

And Allah warns against Dhann (conjecture), saying:

“But of that they have no knowledge: they merely conjecture!”
(Quran, 45:25)

And Allah says further:

“Most people are such that if you follow them they will lead you away from the right path, because they rely on conjecture only.”
(Quran, 6:116)

Allah warns again and again against conjecture on such matters:

“Do not follow that of which you have no knowledge. Indeed the ear, the eye, and the heart each will be questioned.”
(Quran, 17:36)

The Shia who claim that they know with certainty the names of the twelve Caliphs are only conjecturing and only doing this in order to follow their own desires to bolster their polemical stance against the Sunnis. Allah says:

“They follow but conjecture and that which they themselves desire.”
(Quran, 53:23)

We have only been given the knowledge that there will be twelve Caliphs but we cannot say for certainty who they are, as Allah says:

“You have been given but little knowledge.”
(Quran, 17:85)

The Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) made all sorts of prophecies, and the examples we could cite are numerous. In one Hadith, the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) says:

“By Him in Whose hand is my soul, the Hour will not come until…a man speaks to his whip or his shoe, and his thigh will tell him about what happened to his family after he left.”

This has led some people to postulate that this Hadith refers to cell-phones, because cell-phones are placed in a man’s pockets next to his thigh. People have further guessed that the “whips” were an attempt to describe wires. Whatever the case, we can only guess at the exact meaning, and this is the case for most of the Prophet’s prophecies–including the Hadith of the twelve Caliphs.
Therefore, the Sunni scholars hold that we do not know for certain who are the twelve Caliphs referred to in the Hadith. Furthermore, it is speaking without knowledge to claim to know for certain who they are; unlike the Shia and other deviant sects who forge Hadith to back their own list of twelve Caliphs, the Sunnis resort to saying “Allahu Aalim” (Allah knows Best). Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Hajar says about the Hadith of the twelve Caliphs:

“No one has much knowledge about this particular Hadith”
(Ibn Hajar al-’Asqalani, Fath al-Bari 16:338)

The truthful scholars of Sunni Islam can only therefore guess at who the twelve Caliphs are, and it should be understood that these are guesses at best; only deviants manipulate the Word of Allah claiming certainty: the Imamis are adamant about their twelve, the Zaydis are adamant about their twelve, the Ibaadis (descendants of the Khawaarij) are adamant about their twelve, the Ismailis are adamant about their twelve, etc. We shall let these deviant groups bicker amongst each other about who the twelve Caliphs are. We urge our Sunni brothers not to fall into the traps of the Shia propagandists who demand to know who the twelve Caliphs are, and then they enjoy to see the Sunnis replying with varying lists from different scholars, as if this is some sort of proof against Sunni Islam! Like all other prophecies, we cannot know for certain who or what it refers to; it is not only that we do not know, but rather even more than that, namely that we cannot possibly know for certain who the twelve are, as this would be speaking about the Unseen without knowledge from Allah. This is a doctrinal view and it is what differentiates the mainstream Muslims from the deviant sects.
Various scholars have furthered their own guesses as to who the twelve Caliphs must be, but these guesses cannot be taken with absolute certainty, and due to this fact, any contradiction in various lists is not a sign of weakness but rather it is a natural result of a doctrinal view that forbids speaking with certainty on such matters. Therefore, no scholar would say that these are definitely without a doubt the twelve Caliphs, but rather he will speculate as to whom he thinks it may refer to.

atiffarooqi said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
atiffarooqi said...

To add to what Collin stated so clearly, though mine is not nearly as substantiated...

After seeing these few episodes,i think there is some good in it, but also some error. Firstly, Ahl us Sunnah wal Jama'ah believe that the so called "imams" were of the lineage of the Prophet, Ali, Al Huassan wal Husayn were sahaabah and we know the respect they deserve, some of the remaining were reliable scholars, and the rest held positions of respect but did not necessarily hold any specific knowledge that wasnt readily available to the layman, so they werent considered scholars. As for the last one who the yshi'a claim to be in a tunnel of samarra, there is no evidence of him even existing. As for Al Mahdi he will emerge from the lineage of the Prophet no doubt.

With regards to sects, this is somethign that was prophesized by the Messenger when he said, the jews split into 71, the christians split into 72, and the muslims will split into 73, all of which are i nthe hellfire except one: the one who follows my sunnah andthe example of the companions and the tabi'een. So while its true that the sects are a fitnah, it is impossible for us to unite, since some of the shi'a claim Abu bakr, Umar, and many others except 7 are kuffaar, whe nAllaah mentions their status in the Qur`an. Also, some go as far as to claim A'isha was a prostitute. Even the clip you showed of Nasrullah, he is a "twelver" or Ithna 'Ash'ari. These peopel claim divinity and infallability to their "imams" And even go as far as to say that if you dont believe this and if you dont believe that hte Qur`an was altered, you are a kaafir.

So we do not hate those who peopel labeled as imams, in fact we know that those peopel are innocent from what is claimed to them.

However, undoubtedly, the kuffaar use this split to get their foot in the door and plant attacks then blame the other sect, such as in Iraq.

Also, some inconsistencies, we know the Dajjaal is a major sign, while the mahdi is the last minor/first major sign. If this is so, the mahdi should already have appeared. Also, we know that the mahdi will not confront the dajjaal, rather Eesa will be the one to finish him. Lastly, how on earth can you say that no dbout this and that is true, and we KNOW who the dajjaal will be and such and such, when the Messengfer himself would never say such things. By the way, the only thing that comes close to fitting the description of the dajjaal is this single eye everywhere, even thoug hthe dajjaal has two, one is just sealed over.

Anonymous said...

Your episodes were amazing at the beginning. But once I have reached pt. 39, I seriously doubt that I will continue watching the rest of your videos!! I find it so strange and kind of "hypocritical" to name your project as "the wake up project" when you haven't yet woken up properly to sense the difference between the so called "Islamic sects"!! I truly wish that one day you would realize the there is no such a thing in Islam and those sects were merely created to lure us into yet another evil satanic path!!!

Anonymous said...

http://www.genspot.com/video-183942/the-arrivals-pt-39-the-caliphs-the-imams.aspx

brothers plz watch this version because it is an upgraded version

bilal said...

wow and wow...can someone, for gods sake, get their info right on shiism....seriously man, its like whatever site i visit, the same ol regurgitated false facts....how hard is it really to go up to a shia like myself and just ask ur questions...why promote false crap about someone? would the Prophet pbuh like what you are doing? and ive been called kaafir waay more than any sunni has been called kafir, so please stop stop stop your negative propoganda. im not spreading stuff about my sunni brothers, and i deserve the decency to not have lies spread about my religion either. thank you very much. may allah forgive you, and may he forgive me.

bilal said...

btw, my post was directed to bro. atif farooqi, not hte makers of the arrivals...thsoe souls have done an amazing amazing job...and i wholeheartedly support a one ummah, SUNNI AND SHIA UNITE!!!! NOW!! NOW!! NOW!!

Anonymous said...

Salamualaikum brother..i would love to see this video but i cant.. is there any way i can see it?

i personally think you guys are doing a great job, Alhamdulilah and hope to hear from you soon,insyaAllah.

KimDonesia said...

Bilal, the only way that Sunnis and Shi'ites will ever be able to unite would be politically. There is no way that Sunnis and Shi'ites will unite through matters of fiqh and aqeeda since we disagree on so much already.

In the religious sense, we will never unite - in the political sense... Maybe. Allahu alam.

Anonymous said...

Why is so important to you people who is sunni and who is shiit?We're all muslims and we should stick together.Can't you all see that there are many of those who wants exacly this that is happening today beetween sunni and shiits brothers?Well,I think you're just hellping them in their big plan against islam.I'm sorry if I wasn't understandable enough,it's just that I don't speak well english,and I had to post a comment when I saw what some of you wrote as a comment to a part 39.

Sahil said...

When I watched Episode 39 I was shocked to my core, It sometimes is difficult even just to hear someone utter words which are not part of your school of thought. Inshallah I wish i wish that the muslims will unite, I am a so called "sunni" muslim and I love the way you have tried to unite all of us through this one cause noreagaa and achernar. I respect all races and all sects within our beautiful religion. but some sects have morals, values and ways of worship which are totally different to mine

Anonymous said...

I found new satan follower, the one you didn't include in your series

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com
/False%20Religions/Wicca%20&%20Witchcraft/bushiran.jpg

Anonymous said...

alryt....jst tell me whom do u consider as the last prophet....

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